Violation?[]
I've heard from a few corners - and seen the scene in question - that the Alien violated Lambert with its tail before killing her. Anyone seen the scene in question? I think it's a deleted scene, but don't hold me to that, I've not seen Alien in a while now. It does look like it does.. and with all the references to impregnation and birthing and Geiger's suggestive, sexual imagery, it's not beyond the realms of possibility. What do you think?Captain deathbeard 12:25, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
- "Remember when Yaphet Kotto (J.T. Parker) got killed? I was supposed to sneak along the wall and get into the locker-the same one the cat was in earlier. The Alien is supposed to track me down with his sensory things and ‘’I die of fright’’. Well, that’s what they told me but the next thing I knew, I was hanging from a meat hook. All I can assume is: I got raped by the Alien." (Veronica Cartwright talks about Lambert’s demise, from Starlog number 81, April 1984)
The novelization also hints at nasty stuff going down in the food locker:
"Parker looked back into the locker, went a little crazy when he saw what the alien was doing."-Alien novelization.
After killing Parker, the alien turns its attention back to Lambert, whose screams are overheard by Ripley. This leads to the cutscene where Ripley finds Dallas and Brett cocooned. I can’t recall the source right now, but I think the original alien was supposed to have a poison tipped tail. My theory?: At the very least, the alien paralyzed Lambert (with fear/poison tail), prepping her to be cocooned like Dallas and Brett. What’s great about that scene is the ambiguity, it’s the equivalent of the chainsaw-to-the-face scene in "Scarface"!---CadmiumX99 19:04, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Very interesting, never read that quote before. And agreed, I love it when things are left open to interpretation.Captain deathbeard 09:21, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
Despin Convert is not a process, its her Deadname[]
The info doesnt state she underwent "Despin Convert," it states "Subject Is Despin Convert at birth", that is Lamberts dead name (hence why both words are capitalized)... I feel like you guys missed the exceedingly obvious here. ralok (talk) (Contribs) 17:13, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Unless you have any actual sourced evidence that refers to Lambert's original name as such beyond you just interpreting the dossier in a specific way, the page stays as it is. 'Despin Convert' as a birthname sounds like it came out of a Star Wars random name generator, and is completely antithetical to the other 'normal' first-names James Cameron gave his characters in Aliens. Let alone it being overly coincidental that her second name would be affiliated with conversion, and she so happened to get sexual reassignment surgery. Trying to act smug about a subjective interpretation that can't even be proven properly isn't exactly a good look. If you can find a reliable source that decisively confirms that 'Despin Convert' was a deadname then by all means, you are more than welcome to change the page.HadAnd0426 (talk) (Contribs) 00:30, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
- The Dossier doesnt say she underwent Despin Conversion, it says "subject IS Despin Convert at birth", both Despin and Convert are capitalized, it doesnt use the word "conversion", and the structure of the sentence specifically says the subject (refering to Lambert) is Despin Convert, yes its a weird name, and yes its weird her deadname would be something like that. But the structure of the sentence is nonsensical and cannot feasibly be referring to a procedure. One easy way to resolve this would be to compare her Dossier with the others. ralok (talk) (Contribs) 21:29, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- And I just did that, all of them refer to the person in the dossier as the "subject", and and Lamberts doesnt say "subject underwent" it said "Subject is"... and people dont say "subject is a <blank>" when referring to any medical procedure they underwent, the language is consistant across all the dossiers, and hte onyl way this could reasonably be interpreted is being her deadname... ralok (talk) (Contribs) 21:32, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
But once again, you haven't provided any underlying sources to forward your claims. This is the biggest issue here. The dossiers are all written in abbreviated text and aren't to be read literally. An example: Ash's profile says that "subject is science officer grade m1" that doesn't mean thats his name. If her original name was truly Despin Convert, would it not have been referenced distinctly by now in the numerous encyclopaedias of the franchise beyond a single Dossier? I also don't recall any sources either stating any reasons why her second name was changed. Surely it would have originally been 'Despin Lambert' no? Anyways, I cannot dispel your take on the matter definitively, as I do not possess the Wey-Yu report or other media that could help solve this issue. I'll ask another user to help out. I'll also consult with a fellow admin to discuss the matter, but please do not change the page again in the meantime until this is settled. HadAnd0426 (talk) (Contribs) 22:23, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- Wow you really know nothing about this topic... no, her deadname probably wouldnt be Despin Lambert, because a lot of transgender people do change their last name. Surprise, but a lot of Transgender individuals have issues with their family, want to take a guess why? But its sutpidly obvious from the way this is written, and the way the other dossiers are written, that her deadname is Despin Convert. Which is far more likely than the idea that "sometime in the future someone decided to give their baby a sex change", which while it does happen in reality now, it only happens in the case of intersex individuals (and less commonly these days unless there is a serious problem). Also the rest of the dossier is written in a way to make it seem like this is something they experienced during their adult life... But also, I cant stress this enough, the line reads "subject is Despin Convert at birth" it does not say "Subject underwent" or anything like that. In the case of Ash... ASH is science officer grade m1, by your logic someone did something called a "science officer M1" to him at some point. This is an utterly ridiculous argument, you are just flat wrong. ralok (talk) (Contribs) 06:00, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
For the example of Ash, it was a mere grammatical example as to why you shouldn't read the dossiers literally. Another example if you need one for Kane: "Subject is highly ambitious overachiever". Anyways, this is beyond the point. Even if you do not like my take, I've had a look online for any traces of her name, and I couldn't find anything that even proposes or refers to her name as Despin Convert. The main theory that keeps popping up is that of a process, not a deadname, whether you like that or not.
You're right I don't know anything on the topic frankly, however you saying "its because she likely had issues with her family and changed her name" is barely sufficient. We can go on arguing like this forever but I'll be brief. No formal evidence means the page doesn't change until further notice. I also suggest working on your attitude, seeing as Cruentus warned you about this almost a DECADE ago. HadAnd0426 (talk) (Contribs) 12:08, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
- Thing is, you are just wrong though, and Kane is a Highly Ambitious Overachiever, the grammar is wonky... but the other things, are something those people are... not something that happened to them. At no point in any dossier is anything that happened to someone referred to with Is... you are just straight up wrong here. And every moment that it is wrong, you are spreading misinformation. There is a potential compromise here, where the body of the article could just state the fact she is transgender, and in the notes and/or trivia sections explain the two potential readings of the text. Also I think the "why" of its poor grammatical structure, basically boils down to the fact nobody expected the text to ever be legible in lower resolutions... Also other people out there most certainly HAVE come up with the idea that it is her deadname, but... it being the popular theiry that it is a process, doesnt make it factual in any way shape or form... thats just fan fiction. The only reasonable reading of the text is that it is her deadname, but you would rather go with fan fiction, over the most obvious reading of the text. ralok (talk) (Contribs) 21:03, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
I really don't understand why this debate is still going nor why there is such a fuss about that. Because the crew manifest in Aliens is nothing more than an easter egg or an in-joke at first (just like mentions of replicants and Eldon Tyrell in Prometheus bonuses) plus everything is wrong with dates and assignments (who are just here to make tributes to some people who worked in the franchise). Honestly I don't know how this fact ended up in her page as except in this crew manifest (which canonicity is very debatable) this isn't mentioned anywhere else.
After that you're talking of fan fiction, but you're the one who comes with your deadname theory without any proof except of "it's stupidely obvious..." or "The only reasonable reading...". I make researches about "other people out there most certainly HAVE come up with the idea that it is her deadname" but the only time I saw people saying Despin Convert is her deadname is in this talk page by you. Sorry but I don't buy your theory, you're the one doing fan fiction.--Fox357magnum(Talk) 22:47, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
Not to stir this up again but I just wanted to interject that often medical records will read as the dossier on Lambert does. For example, one may read "Patient is Asthmatic". Medical procedures are also often capitalized. Such as “Patient underwent Transurethral Ultrasound Ablation . It would not be at all abnormal to see such a statement as “Subject Is Despin Convert at birth” in any medical report provided that 'Despin Convert' were a real thing.
Military records also have similar language and read exactly as the above record does. A personnel record is abbreviated and reads a bit awkward, just like the above.
Having been involved with both medical records and military records I see no reason to conclude that a name being Despin Convert is intended by the dossier we see. I do see that idea as a bit ridiculous.
None of this is proof of anything, just a statement based on experience.
Just to add a thought on grammar: I read the sentence as elliptically omitting an article; hence "Subject is [a] Despin Convert". I expect the procedure to be called "Despin Conversion", but I'm not certain enough to just go and change it. Any thoughts?
User:F.Karnstein
Transgender removed[]
The "Citation" for transgender claim of Lamber was a random twitter that discussed the chest burster scene. The transgender claim is false, there is no evidence anywhere of it. Irrelevant and unsupported claims shouldn't even be on this page.